Tuesday, July 24, 2007


24 July 07

Perhaps I was too tired. That’s as good an excuse as any. It beats admitting the obvious – I got outplayed.

I waded back into the poker scene recently. A couple good finished in tournaments created a little spark in the tiny bankroll, so I jumped into a very loose 10/20 game at the Muckleshoot. I was bleeding away chips playing good solid poker and losing to suckouts. I was actually happy with that (as opposed to pretending to be happy) because it meant they were willing to play to the river with crap. As long as I could get my premium hands to hold up, the money would come.

Sitting on A7 in the big blind, I call a raise and 4 of us see a flop of As-10h-6d. I’m first to act so I bet. Good player #1 raises and good Player #2 flat calls. My A7 hits the muck as fast as I can fling it.

At the river, #1 had a just a pair of 10s and #2 had pocket 8s.

As I walked away, I knew I got outplayed. The question is, if I discount collusion (if they were colluding, the correct move from #2 would have been a flop re-raise), can I give credit to #2 for thinking:

a. He (meaning me) might lay down top pair here.

b. Realizing that Player #1s flop raise was a move against me (as opposed to a real hand).

I think the answer to #1 is no, but #2 is possible. I had folded a couple hands on the flop when I was the initial raiser. I was obviously stuck. I think I was playing (or at least perceived to be playing) extra tight, and therefore might be able to be outplayed.

I’m just pleased that I left with a good portion of my bankroll still intact. You can’t outplay me if I’m not there, dammit!


Seattlejohn said...

Mistake #1 was calling A7 from the Blind. You only have two options depending on where the rasie came from. Option #1, muck, which should be the option 95% of the time with that hand and 4 people in the pot before the button. Option #2 if the raise came from the Hijack, the button called and SB called, would have been to three bet the hand and represent strength. At that point you could have bet out and you most likely would have won the pot. At worst the 10's may have come with you but the 88's would have been gone. Passive poker is weak poker, and that bleeds chips. Better luck next time...SJ

Ryan Kirk said...

Damnit John! I had this comment all ready to go and you went and stole my thunder. He made the exact two points I was going to make. First, Ace-rag is a hand that should be thrown away in the BB to most any preflop raise. The only exceptions are if its suited and it's a multiway pot or if the PFR came from the hijack, cutoff, or the button.

Also, in this particular hand, I think leading out on the flop doesn't get you much information. Nearly 100% of the time the PFR (preflop raiser) is going to raise you either with a hand or not because he has position on you. If you call and check the turn he could see the turn and river for free. If you check raise though, you'll get a lot more information in this multiway pot. Does the PFR have a hand he can three-bet like a big ace or a set? If so, then you can muck safely having only lost two small bets. That's the key. This will put more pressure on the flat caller and you also get to see how the PFR reacts to the ace hitting the flop. If it looks like he likes it, then you may want to fold for no bet when it comes back to you. I think if you check-raised the flop the ten's would have called, the eight's would have folded, and you would have won the hand by leading on the turn.

My rule: Lead out with strong hands hoping to three bet and check-raise with marginal hands to gain more information.

Anonymous said...

It's ok to fold a winner sometimes.

If it was suited the preflop call is ok here in the blind. Especially against the usual 10-20 mucks crowd.

Folding the flop getting 13-1 closing the action? Nope. I'm sliding one off and will fold the turn if I miss.

So technically, you should've lost 1 more small bet.

It's shocking to see Ryan and Matt in suits. ;)


Anonymous said...

Oh, btw, I'd also reassess your read on player #2 as being a good player.